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The Jammie Dodger Bored Board -> JDBB -> The Jammie Dodger Bored Board -> Sharia vs Democracy
Post Info TOPIC: Sharia vs Democracy


in a democracy, should it be possible to vote democracy out and theocracy/autocracy in?
[6 vote(s)]

Yes. Such is the nature of democracy.
33.3%
No. That's one thing we shouldn't be democratic about.
33.3%
Pff. Silly question. I'm gonna have toast.
33.3%
ddvmor


I am the Jammie King!




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Posts: 12736
Date: Sep 20, 2006
Sharia vs Democracy
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So, I came across this article this morning that raises an interesting question:





Sharia could come via democracy: Dutch minister


13 September 2006


AMSTERDAM — Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner has provoked an angry response by stating it has to be possible for Sharia Law to be introduced in the Netherlands via democratic means.


The Christian Democrat (CDA) minister made the suggestion during an interview for the book 'Het land van haat en nijd' (the land of hate and malice) which was published on Wednesday.


Donner indicated he was not happy with the tone of the integration debate in the Netherlands.


Muslims, he said, just like Protestants and Roman Catholics, have a right to the perceptions of their religion, even if that included dissenting rules of behaviour such as imams refusing to shake hands with women.


He went on to say: "It must be possible for Muslim groups to come to power [in the Netherlands] via democratic means. Every citizen may argue why the law should be changed, as long as he sticks to the law.


"It is a sure certainty for me: if two thirds of all Netherlanders tomorrow would want to introduce Sharia, then this possibility must exist. Could you block this legally? It would also be a scandal to say 'this isn't allowed!


"The majority counts. That is the essence of democracy."


His remarks are contrary to the stance taken by MP Maxime Verhagen, leader of the CDA in parliament. Verhagen had expressed concern Sharia Law could be introduced in city districts where Muslims are already in the majority.


Right-wing MP Geert Wilders of the Party for Freedom has posed written questions to Donner.


Wilders said Donner should be defending Dutch norms and values and resisting the introduction of "barbarous Sharia Law" in the Netherlands. The minister will face a motion of no confidence if he sticks to his views, Wilders warned.


Labour (PvdA), the largest opposition party, has also expressed surprise at Donner. MP Jeroen Dijsselbloem said Donner seemed to be forgetting that several points of Sharia Law are in conflict with the Dutch Constitution. "The Minister for Justice must invest his energies in opposing these sorts of opinions rather than signalling that such ideas can form part of our democracy," Dijsselbloem said.




Jeroen's name aside (how the hell do you pronounce that?), it's my understanding (and I'm no expert here) that Sharia law is a pretty long way from democracy.  The question this raises for me is:  in a democracy, should it be possible to vote democracy out and theocracy or autocracy in?


Poll.  Discuss.  Buy the T-shirt.



-- Edited by ddvmor at 09:46, 2006-09-20

-- Edited by ddvmor at 21:59, 2006-09-21

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sha76jam


Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree


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Posts: 2225
Date: Sep 20, 2006
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Well I suppose techinally yes, in a true democracy anyone can stand on any policy.  if that policy happens to include the dissolving of all further democracy then you have to hope there aren't enough fools to vote for it.
Wasn't it the Netherlands who had a peodophilia party?



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JonnyStead


"I'm Lois!"


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Posts: 4979
Date: Sep 20, 2006
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Indeed but in the UK I would imagine it would require state approval as well, you know with the queen permanently disolving parliament and accepting the non-democratic future rule


And so and so and such and such etc



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Zem YN3B


Really Bored Matress

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Posts: 169
Date: Sep 22, 2006
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"The majority counts. That is the essence of democracy."


You brought up one of my recent annoyances/soapboxes-- way to go, now you get ranted at.  I will make an effort to make my rant as brief as possible, which takes quite an effort for me indeed.


Q: If the "majority counts," what is the purpose for elected representatives?  Why doesn't every citizen have the opportunity to introduce laws and all laws passed/failed at a general election where every citizen votes?


A: Because one of the responsibilities of government is to protect the rights of the minority, otherwise, why don't we tell every Muslim in (insert your non-Middle Eastern country here) to smeg off and pass a law requiring them to jump into the ocean and swim for Arabia under pain of death, thereby skirting the issue entirely? They're (currently) the minority, and "the majority counts."  Does that sound like the "essence of democracy" to you?  Otherwise, what is the purpose of freedom of speech, for example?  If the majority is in power, and "the majority counts," why should we allow the minority to speak out?  Why should we allow a minority group to practice a different religion (such as Islam, by the way)?  Why should we give a minority ethnicity the same rights as the majority group?


The majority doesn't always count, this is the true essence of democracy as we understand it (we tend to use the word quite improperly, really.  True democracy would be true majority rule, or "the tyranny of the majority" that was frequently brought up my the framers of the U.S. Constitution).


This concept is what annoys me about "voter referendums."  Our system of gov't (and yours, too, most likely) is designed to put decision making in the hands of an elected few that hopefully are willing to occasionally make the tough decision that is best for everyone involved but isn't necessarily popular.  Instead you have lawmakers too cowardly to make unpopular decisions, so they make the issue a who can spend the most money on borderline deceptive TV ads and smear campaigns popularity contest.  Irks me.


Ok, I'm better now.



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BrianS


Still Number One

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Posts: 576
Date: Sep 22, 2006
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I agree 100%, nice rant, I enjoyed it.

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ddvmor


I am the Jammie King!




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Posts: 12736
Date: Sep 22, 2006
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Zem YN3B wrote:

The majority doesn't always count, this is the true essence of democracy as we understand it.




There it is!

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