I dont know about you lot

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

RE: I dont know about you lot

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jul 25, 2005

agreed!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

I agree - you ban one, you should ban 'em all. Does anyone remember a story in the news about a guy who was fined for eating a kit-kat whilst driving on a motorway?

The important question though, is... would you smoke in your house if it was zooming along at 70 mph. More to the point... what would you be smoking?

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jul 25, 2005

the last time i was driving my house around i didnt smoke

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Good girl.

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

My house has a terrible habit of smoking whenever I cook sausages.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

But not whilst driving?

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

HaloBurn wrote:

Definetly should be banned in cars, it's a distraction like mobile phones; and people are reckless while fannying about with trying to light up and steer at 70mph or are more interested in holding their cigarette than steering properly.

It is already banned - performing any activity (including the sexual ones JDK) which prevents you from driving with full control of the vehicle - i.e. sticking a fag out the window, if you cause an accident is Careless Driving / without due care and attention.

As for banning smoking / the whole fat people debate, I agree that both are equally bad for you. I agree that both cause a similar drain on the NHS (ask any nurse performing home visits on someone who couldnt stay off the cake and now needs to be humped around due to a stroke / heart attack) - but there is one fundamental difference - TAX

Cigs are taxed (about 80% of the value to be precise) where as food (VAT exempt) isnt. Cigs contribute a massive amount to GDP and the money spent on treating the 100k sick smokers a year is a tiny proportion of this contribution.

Lets also get another couple of things straight here Halo - Smokers are not addicted like drug addicts FACT - smoking is more of a habit / crutch - proven by the 90% of people who embark on attacking the psychological issues of smoking quitting and never returning.

Obese people DO directly hurt other people - obese parents are far more likely to have obese children FACT (average 23% of children in the UK are now obese) - and let me leave you with one more FACT -

WE CURRENTLY LIVE IN THE FIRST GENERATION OF THE HUMAN RACE EVER WHERE WE EXPECT PARENTS TO OUTLIVE THEIR CHILDREN! - and why? one word..... Diet.

So before we rant and rave about the smokes, or beer, or cell phones or even drugs lets address the one thing that people even 1000 years ago where able to get right, without education or the nanny state or anti-smoking lobbyists - lets teach our children what they should and shouldnt eat.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

JonnyStead wrote:

Smokers are not addicted like drug addicts FACT - smoking is more of a habit / crutch - proven by the 90% of people who embark on attacking the psychological issues of smoking quitting and never returning.

What is a drug addiction if it isn't a habit fuelled by psychological needs?? 'Drug' addicts (I assume you mean illegal narcotics) use their vice as a crutch too. Of course smokers are addicts.

Also, I think Stead is obsessed by fat people...

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

(maybe we should buy him one...?)

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

There are plenty to choose from in Bristol. Place is teeming with the buggers.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

(psst. You forgot the parenthesis... he'll hear you!)

-- Edited by ddvmor at 10:01, 2005-07-26

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

(Darnit. I thought I was missing something. Do you think we'll get away with it?)

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Copper wrote:

What is a drug addiction if it isn't a habit fuelled by psychological needs?? 'Drug' addicts (I assume you mean illegal narcotics) use their vice as a crutch too. Of course smokers are addicts. Also, I think Stead is obsessed by fat people...

No so - if you look at the chemical (physical) impact on the brain of withdrawal from class A drugs, it is completely different and much more severe than that of nicotine.

Smokers suffer far more from the belief that they 'need' smokes to calm there nerves or improve concentration or help them relax. For drug addicts it is simply about restoring the now 'off-balance' balance of chemicals in the brain.

Simple proof - smokers are not woken in the night due to a 'craving' (which they would have had if they had been awake) where as addicts to class A drugs are.

I'm not obsessed with fat people. I am though concerned that we have a view that we accept obesity on the 'just be yourself' stance when deliberately eating unhealthy food and choosing to do no excercise is not only bad for you (and for kids who copy it) but is self destructive behaviour, justified by society because we are not allowed to run the risk of 'hurting someone' by speaking the truth.

Pointing out that someone is critically unhealthy due to their chosen lifestyle is not a breach of political correctness!

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

JonnyStead wrote:

No so - if you look at the chemical (physical) impact on the brain of withdrawal from class A drugs, it is completely different and much more severe than that of nicotine.

Doesn't matter. The psychological impact of any addiction (alcohol, cigs, class As, sex, food..) is a factor that needs to be addressed to tackle an addiction. If you know anyone who works in social work, addiction services etc, they will tell you the very same.

I think Steady was a fat person in a former life and now simultaneously despises and feels drawn to all things fat

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Copper wrote:

Doesn't matter. The psychological impact of any addiction (alcohol, cigs, class As, sex, food..) is a factor that needs to be addressed to tackle an addiction. If you know anyone who works in social work, addiction services etc, they will tell you the very same. I think Steady was a fat person in a former life and now simultaneously despises and feels drawn to all things fat

Um... does matter - those will be the 'Social workers' who are as qualified as the Neurologists is it? Oh yes thats right a GCSE in Sociology outways a PHD in Neurology everytime. How silly of me Cop... thank you for putting me right

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

Hmm, I thought you didn't value PhDs? Now you seem to be a snob? So full of contradictions...

(see how is avoiding the fat issue now?)

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Oh dear. All so serious.

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

JonnyStead wrote:

HaloBurn wrote:
Definetly should be banned in cars, it's a distraction like mobile phones; and people are reckless while fannying about with trying to light up and steer at 70mph or are more interested in holding their cigarette than steering properly.

It is already banned - performing any activity (including the sexual ones JDK) which prevents you from driving with full control of the vehicle - i.e. sticking a fag out the window, if you cause an accident is Careless Driving / without due care and attention.
As for banning smoking / the whole fat people debate, I agree that both are equally bad for you. I agree that both cause a similar drain on the NHS (ask any nurse performing home visits on someone who couldnt stay off the cake and now needs to be humped around due to a stroke / heart attack) - but there is one fundamental difference - TAX
Cigs are taxed (about 80% of the value to be precise) where as food (VAT exempt) isnt. Cigs contribute a massive amount to GDP and the money spent on treating the 100k sick smokers a year is a tiny proportion of this contribution.
Lets also get another couple of things straight here Halo - Smokers are not addicted like drug addicts FACT - smoking is more of a habit / crutch - proven by the 90% of people who embark on attacking the psychological issues of smoking quitting and never returning.
Obese people DO directly hurt other people - obese parents are far more likely to have obese children FACT (average 23% of children in the UK are now obese) - and let me leave you with one more FACT -
WE CURRENTLY LIVE IN THE FIRST GENERATION OF THE HUMAN RACE EVER WHERE WE EXPECT PARENTS TO OUTLIVE THEIR CHILDREN! - and why? one word..... Diet.
So before we rant and rave about the smokes, or beer, or cell phones or even drugs lets address the one thing that people even 1000 years ago where able to get right, without education or the nanny state or anti-smoking lobbyists - lets teach our children what they should and shouldnt eat.

I don't think I have anything to get straight.

As far as addiction goes nicotine is on a level with heroin

The main problem I have here is the same thing you get when politicians don't like to discuss a topic and use slight of hand tactics. If you feel the need to discuss over eating start a new topic on that and debate cigarettes on their own merit not by confusing the issue by bringing completely irrelevent arguments, we may as well include the weather or glabal warming.

The fact is that cigarrettes cause cancer.

And not just to the person doing it but to those around them, and for workers in enclosed public places this means a direct threat to their health. That is the issue under which the ban is being introduced so please defend smoking in this context not by bringing in un-related arguments.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Aye. No more fatty stuff in this thread, Ladies. The Pirate has spoken!

(And that's the closest I've ever got to moderating in a thread on this board. I'm so authoritative! Oy, you lot! RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH! )

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

Yarrrrrrr

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Um... am I wrong in interpreting Stead's comment slightly differently to you, Halo? I'm not sure he said that nicotine wasn't addictive, just something about the chemical difference.

...Smokers are not addicted like drug addicts FACT - smoking is more of a habit / crutch - proven by the 90% of people who embark on attacking the psychological issues of smoking quitting and never returning...

According to Allen Carr's very sucessful theories and I haven't read the book, so the details are a little sketchy here - Stead should be able to elaborate (in a polite, non-sarcastic and moderate way... he he he) the major obstacle to giving up smoking is a psychological one rather than a chemical/pysiological one.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Quite right - also the ASH research is 5 years old which in scientific terms puts it along side "The world is flat" and "everything was created in 7 days" - the British Medical Association (you know those guys without a politically motivated anti-smoking agenda) Fully endorse the new research treating smoking as mostly a psychological issue - and recommend treatment on that basis - but what do they know? (sorry struggling to keep the sarcasm down)

Halo has is views on this and so do I - I was a smoker and suggest Halo wasnt? Maybe wrong but I am confident I speak from experience. It is worth noting though that no-one has ever brought a successful law suit based on passive smoking and most legislation passed on the issue has been generated from a general fear of the possible sanction -

As for drawing in other subjects Halo - comparison to precedents set within similar subject (whether in law or debate) is valid and I will continue to do so. After all if you are prepared to debate an issue, you must be prepared to debate an issue.

-- Edited by JonnyStead at 14:35, 2005-07-26

-- Edited by JonnyStead at 14:37, 2005-07-26

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

JonnyStead wrote:

...the ASH research is 5 years old which in scientific terms puts it along side "The world is flat" and "everything was created in 7 days" ...

It is... it was... Bugrit. I'm doing it now!

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

Smoking kills. That's all there is to it.

That's all I have to say on this one.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

On that note, I am nipping out of the office for a smoke on the steps of my office building.

Yes, my friends, I have a fully formed psychological addiction to Camel Lights as well as Dodgy forums.

(and I am giving up after I submit my phd..)

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Didnt you used to tell Santa off for smokin? I am surprised - but well done on at least deciding to give up -

Get the book!

Shall we close this one off now then? Suesy has spoken after all

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

My restraint crumbled after 6 happy months.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Mmmm.... crumble.

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jul 26, 2005

stead, just before the post is closed *ahem* (i could always open it and add my 2 cents anyway

) i would like to point out that obese people causing damage to their children is completely different to a smoker causing damage to me, or the the waitress in a cafe or to the average dude walking down the street, as well as to their children.