Fat People

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Fat People

Andromeda · ***Proud House-Owner***

Yes, but there's a real difference between telling someone that maybe theyre packing on the pounds a bit and just plain picking on someone.

I was one hell of a fat kid and I have to tell you it didn't help at all when I walked into the 6th grade and the kids asked me when the baby was due.

And the only thing that has helped me lose weight at all was the awareness that diabetes runs in my family plus my grandfather dying quite young of a heart attack.

That said, I also find it rude when people talk to me about my smoking. Yes, I know it's bad for me. Yes, I know it causes all sorts of diseases. I know. Really, I promise. I've heard all the lectures you can think of. And I've never found it acceptable dinnertime conversation for someone to regale me with tales of the damage I am doing to my lungs.

But perhaps both of these items aren't something you can really judge until you've been in the person's shoes. Someone else can't push you to do it. You have to do it when you're ready.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

quote:

Originally posted by: Andromeda
"Yes, but there's a real difference between telling someone that maybe theyre packing on the pounds a bit and just plain picking on someone...

That said, I also find it rude when people talk to me about my smoking. Yes, I know it's bad for me. Yes, I know it causes all sorts of diseases. I know. Really, I promise. I've heard all the lectures you can think of. And I've never found it acceptable dinnertime conversation for someone to regale me with tales of the damage I am doing to my lungs."

More wise words from Florida!

I'm not talking about picking on people. I'm kinda commenting on the fact that it seems to be socially acceptable... nay, encouraged to be obese.

And with regards to the smoking/obesity discussion over the dinner table, the point is that it is considered socially acceptable (by the world at large, at least) to tell people about how they're poisoning their bodies yadda yadda yadda if you're talking about smoking but not if you talk about obesity. Why the difference?

Don't we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings - particularly kids - to at least try to stop 'em from doing stupid things? Like walking in front of busses and eating rat poison? Again... what's the difference?

You can kick me now if you like.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

quote:
Originally posted by: ddvmor
"I don't dislike fat people. Let me make that absolutely crystal clear.

Really? Sure?

Fatness is a problem.

For who? You?

I see him constantly cramming chocolate, biscuits and crisps into his face whilst sitting in front of the TV "

I am sure if you asked for a biccy he would oblige...

Hate to say it JDK, but this all sounds a bit freudian. Why does it bother you so much? Hmm?

Fatness is unique, because it is a social problem thats doesnt affect others (unlike smoking), and yet people who rarely display social concern get annoyed about it. I think it is complicated - certainly not as simple as you have suggested...

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

quote:
Originally posted by: Copper
" Fatness is unique, because it is a social problem thats doesnt affect others (unlike smoking), and yet people who rarely display social concern get annoyed about it. I think it is complicated - certainly not as simple as you have suggested... "

Never said it wasn't complicated.

Does it really not affect others? What about the health risks associated with obesity, that I'm gonna end up paying for out of my taxes? What about the worry that I have for the health my..er.. larger friends. And even worse - what about the social effect - I actually find myself reluctant to offer one of my friends lifts to and from work because he is very large and there are many speed bumps on the way to his house. I only have an M reg Skoda. The suspension ain't that good! Sounds really bad, I know, but it's purely a practical thing.

Even if I accept that it doesn't affect others... you could say the same thing about, say a chronically depressed person who wants to slit his wrists. His death ain't gonna affect me. It won't make me ill or anything like that. So should I let him get on with it?

I don't think that obesity is a physiological or a psychological problem. I think it's a societal problem. I promise that I'm not getting at fat people. I'm getting at society. Honest.

Kick me now.

-- Edited by ddvmor at 09:39, 2005-05-19

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

quote:
Originally posted by: ddvmor
" Even if I accept that it doesn't affect others... you could say the same thing about, say a chronically depressed person who wants to slit his wrists. His death ain't gonna affect me. It won't make me ill or anything like that. So should I let him get on with it?"

Have you ever heard contemptuous bickering about suicide? No. That affects peoples health far more (being deadly and all), but it doesn't recieve emotional/political discussion.

Fatness and it's reception in society is a very interesting psychological/political/sociological phenomenon - I don't think it is about social concern.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Have you ever heard contemptuous bickering about suicide? No. That affects peoples health far more (being deadly and all), but it doesn't receive emotional/political discussion.

Yeah. Good point. But how many people do you know that would just allow someone to jump off a bridge or shoot themselves without at least trying to talk them out of it or help in some way?

Fatness and it's reception in society is a very interesting psychological/political/sociological phenomenon - I don't think it is about social concern.

Ok. What is it about then?

Am I being overly agressive, now? I'll go and post in another thread! Much safer!

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

rflmao..........

Oh dear !

It's to near my holidays to get into this. Have fun.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

No, no. We want to hear your opinion, Dude. Especially on how evolution/creationism and religion affects this!

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

I'm not getting involved either...

can't we talk about cats and their funny ways again?

BTW: surely obesity is a Darwinian response to an abundance of food and lack of exercise? can't see why God would let people get fat and die?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

We could link the two. My cat is fat because he does no exercise and sleeps about 23 1/2 hours a day. It's society's fault though. Given that it's just me and him, that makes it my fault. Bugger.

So, you're saying that Darwin was fat because he ate too many pies and did no exercise?

And... it's that pesky free-will clause. Read the Adam and Eve story again. It explains everything!

Hows about we talk about hipster bulge instead? It's technically on-topic and also funny.

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

Hipster bulge? - is that what girls get around their middles when they wear too tight hipster trousers? Pics please.

Not Darwin who ate all the pies, although i understand the odd dodo lasagne was right up his street, but obesity as a result of abundance and sloth (good biblical word that) is a darwinian response?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

That's the one. Sadly a google image search was unsucessful.

I shall keep an eye out at lunchtime and if I see one, I'll use my phone to take a pic. It'll be a bit crap, though.

I dunno if it counts as a darwinian response. I don't think obesity is an inherited trait, so technically, no. But it is a product of the environment that people are in. Lots of fatty high sugar foods, many many escalators, lifts and cars. We make it too easy to get fat in normal day to day life.

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

be careful - I don't want you to end up in brissle jail for perving, cos they'll put you with the other pervs and that would be horrid.

Yes, tbh you're right its not darwinian at all, as no trait is inherited as a result of it, just fancied discussing it for its own sake - always happy to back a losing horse me. Like dodos.

Hmm is obesity the same as smoking? i,e, should you be able to preach about it?

Only, I reckon, if the obesity and/or smoking directly affects you i.e. you're sat next to an obese person on a plane, and they've only bought one seat, and their rolls are flopping onto you.

I'm not sure if I buy the indirect bits i.e. taxes pay for medical help etc, because even mcDonalds pay corporation tax etc.

On the other hand if a personal crusade to reduce obesity through public education (and humiliation?) floats your boat, you go ahead matey!

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

quote:
Originally posted by: ddvmor
"I dunno if it counts as a darwinian response. I don't think obesity is an inherited trait, so technically, no. "

Despite having buckets of work to do I HAVE to correct this fundamental misunderstanding.

1. The propensity to like fatty food can certainly be an inherited trait. Obesity can be seen as an interaction between our propensities and the modern environment.

2. Inherited does not mean genetic - there are a number of ways traits can be inherited (biologically and socially), and this can be regarded as an evolutionary process.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Ok Copp.

We stand corrected.

Santa - there used to be a really enormous guy who got on our bus. He literally took up 2 seats, he was that big. And God help whoever he sat next to if there were no double seats available.

It was scary.

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

was he made to buy two tickets? (bets £100 that the answer is no - wins bet) and thats the problem, with smoking, obesity, vandalism, drink driving, petty theft, 'gas guzzling' cars etc, etc, in that it is rare for anyone to be liable for the full social, financial or environmental cost of their actions. Until these costs are factored into choice and behaviour i.e. Big Macs are taxed in the same way as fags because of their social ills, we will live in a society where personal responsibility is diluted to a point where no individual can be blamed for their own actions - alwasy someone elses fault - there I've done it , I've agreed with you (I think?)

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Very good point. And one I quite agree with. :thumbs up:

Not really the point I was trying to make though. Should we tolerate obesity, or should we be doing everything we can to reduce it?

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

quote:
Originally posted by: ddvmor
"Ok Copp. We stand corrected."

Ooooooo.

Have I been irksome?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Of course not.

We were simply deferring to your greater knowledge on the subject.

Well done!

Lite · **I'm lite... and I'm fantastic!**

Hrm... I think i'm on the other side of this coin.

For a long time I was very underwaight.. which is just as unhealthy as being overwaight I would asume?

Anyhoo as with biglet (but in reverse) people told me to eat all the time and tryed varous things to get me to eat more. My girlfriend would call me a bony pillow and refuse to hug me.. or cook me far to much food then act all upset when i wouldnt eat half of it. Anyway I've put on some waight now and i'm feeling much better, alot more engery for one thing!

So I'm with biglet on this one. Though i guess its not a taboo subject as overwaight?

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

My personal opinion Is that society has a lot to answer for. If you go into any supermarket you will find that the majority of processed food (and fast food) has a lot of carbs and additives.

Basically items which slow down your metabolism, everyone has a different metabolism which is why some people can seem to eat whatever they want and never gain weight while others no matter what they do can’t shift any weight they gain or have to work really hard to keep the weight off.

Having said that there is no excuss for being Obese and everyone should exercise as much as possible.

I guess if we ate what little our ancestors did although we would be hungry we would all look great, just like the airbrushed people in magazines.

Now on the point of social acceptance in reference to smoking.

When you take a drink of alchohol or eat a pie the only person you are directly harming is yourself, people who smoke are inflicting harmful pollutants into the environment that lead to people getting cancer through no fault of their own. So I’m not sure I see the comparison. The sooner smoking is completely banned the better as far as I’m concerned ( I wouldn’t even allow people to do it in private)

La la ala la la (awaits backlash) lal la la la ( still waiting ) ho hum

BrianS · Still Number One

I know what you mean Lite, my roommate in college was/is as skinny as a rai. He is 6 foot 3 inches tall and weighs in at a whopping 130 lbs. People always tell him he needs to eat more. This guy eats a ton but it makes no difference. He was even taking weight gainer for a while with no affect. He has no problem telling fat people they are fat, just returning the favor you know. I think there is no reason for some people to be as big as they are. I know that some people regardless of what they do or how much the exercise will never be models, it is just how their body is put together. Some people even though they have a shorty dumpy body compound the problem with being lazy and eating unheathy food. These are the people I have a problem with. For example, there is a guy in my office that is about 5 foot 8 and has to weigh at least 400 pounds. He makes the situation worse by eating crisps and cup cakes for lunch. People like this I have no problem pointing their habits out to. Hell, someone needs to tell them.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

quote:
Originally posted by: Andromeda
"That said, I also find it rude when people talk to me about my smoking. Yes, I know it's bad for me. Yes, I know it causes all sorts of diseases. I know. Really, I promise. I've heard all the lectures you can think of. And I've never found it acceptable dinnertime conversation for someone to regale me with tales of the damage I am doing to my lungs."

People's manners go out the window for some reason when it comes to smoking. All of the sudden, it's okay to be a critical know-it-all, loud-mouth who knows everthing about the subject despite the fact that they neither smoke nor have any academic or practical training on the subject.

People do all kinds of **CUCUMBER** they shouldn't, but rarely are people so crass about someone elses questionable habbit as they are in the case of smoking.

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Have to say, completely agree with you, your jammie highness.

So Nate, as I have been known to work with, for example, stats on smokers with lung cancer as part of my job then may I lecture you? (Theoretical question, I'm not going too, I'm don't passively breathing too much of your smoke over here & you're well within your rights to poison yourself how you choose. I shall stop now before I start lecturing accidently!)

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Ray. Some people agree with me. I don;t think that's ever happened before.

Er... and some don't. Nothing really unusual for me there.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

quote:
Originally posted by: sha76jam
"So Nate, as I have been known to work with, for example, stats on smokers with lung cancer as part of my job then may I lecture you?"

Sure, and then go on to explain how alcohol adversely affects the brain:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/health/23real.html?ex=1116648000&en=b22755cd3422c1c2&ei=5070

And how eating chocolate aint too healthy:
http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0984.html

And how too many vitamins can be bad for you:
http://www.mamashealth.com/nutrition/vitamind.asp

And how tanning, especially via a tanning bed, is for nimrods:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=34042

And how shellfish might not be a good idea:
http://www.dietbites.com/diet-shellfish-nutrition.html

And how being subjected to rain can hurt the body:
http://www.sciencemaster.com/jump/earth/acid_rain.php

Christ, marrying the wrong **CUCUMBER** can be very dangerous to your health:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/11/12/peterson.verdict/

Heh, pretty soon I won’t leave the house and I’ll be on a strict diet of water and rice cakes!

Then go on to explain to me how you avoid all life’s potential risks, just to end up with some crap genetic flaw or ending up in a freak accident which just ends up killing you off anyway.

I know, beware the lung cancer (after-all, I've only heard this 1,000,000,000,000 times). Still, all I ask is that you leave me smoke in peace. While all evidence points to the contrary, in my experience, this doesn't strike me as being that hard.

In return, I'll try not to poke a bunch of holes in your balloon.

-- Edited by NateO at 00:13, 2005-05-20

Aodan · Teiam Member

As I guess I'm the only porky person on this board, I just have to throw in my two cents on the issue... I apologize right now if this sounds overly defensive. But this is a touchy subject with a lot of people for a lot of reasons.

First I have to say that yes, I agree that SOME people that want to blame everyone else when they just can't put the hohos down and they weigh as much as a car get me ticked.

That being said - there are lots of other reasons a person can be portly. While I have no scientific notes to back me up or anything else, I tend to believe that genetics has SOMETHING to do with it - in some cases.

I'll lay it out for you with the only example that I can back up at all. Me.

I have always been a "big girl" - ALWAYS. Throughout my adolescense I was on 3 basketball teams, (School, Travel, and Intermural) at the same time, played softball (School, Intermural) competitively (can'tspell), soccer (erm.. football), and was in general a very active kid. I even competed in an all day basketball tournament (played 8 games throughout the day). Anyway, my point is this - throughout all of that, I was still big. Now in my mid 20's, while I'm not nearly THAT active anymore - I can take a flight of stairs (within reason), I walk at least a mile a day, and in general tend to not stay in one place for too long. Before getting pregnant I could jump in on a pick up game of basketball, or run around like a stupid kid, and being big was never an issue as far as doing something was concerned. (I mention this cuz lately I've been doing a lot more couch time - but hey.. doctors orders..)

Despite what it may look like, I'm also not a very big eater. Yes I'll have my splurgy moments - everyone does. But I am no glutton. I eat sensibly, healthy meals, I don't eat sugary foods, fast food, or "snack foods" other than in very limited amounts. I don't drink soda, and while I have a very bad coffee addiction, if I'm not drinking that (dark with no sugar), I'm drinking gallons of water.

Despite all this, there are some who see me and automatically think that I am slovenly, lazy, with no self control. They will even make assumptions about my intelligence - even WITHOUT seeing my horrific spelling. Chances are, I'm more active than they are.

I've probably heard every insult in the book. I was never just a b*tch, a wh*re, or an ass.. I was a FAT b*tch, a FAT wh*re, and a FAT ass. I grew up with a grandmother who told me regularly how hideously fat I was, and that I would never be able to get a boyfriend. Told me "out of love and concern". So yeah, I'm sensitive.

The only number that was ever of "concern" in the doctors office was the one on the scale. All other indicators said I was in good shape. Blood pressure was normal, heart rate normal, cholesterol normal, no diabetes, etc. etc. etc. Even when I got pregnant people were telling me that because I was heavy I was going to have all sorts of problems. With the exception of an elevated blood pressure (Which can happen to ANYBODY), this pregnancy has so far gone on without a hitch. I've gained all of 15 lbs since the beginning, (by this point in her pregnancy my normal weighted cousin had already put on 50+ lbs) my bloodwork is fine, I'm healthy and the baby is healthy.

As far as genetics go, I'll say this. There are lots of factors that ARE genetic that DO effect how one puts on weight. Thyroid conditions are just one. They happen to run rampant on my mothers side of the family. 4 people are on medication for underactive thyroids (hypothyroidism - which can lead to weight gain) and on the other side, my mother was treated for an underactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism), and she is hypoglycemic. My brother is 5'10 and weighs about 140lbs. Skinny kid. But you should see him eat. He puts professional eaters to SHAME. We can't take him to expensive restaurants because he eats too much - (2+ starters AND soup AND salad AND an entire entree AND dessert - he's never taken leftovers home - there usually aren't any). Yet he doesn't gain a pound. If I were to eat HALF as much as he did, I'd be even bigger than I am now. Exercise or not. Our bodies just work differently.

Anyway, this was incredibly long winded but what I'm basically getting at is this:

Being an over-weight person is hard. For a lot of reasons. And while there are a WHOOOOOOOOOOOLE lot of people out there that love to blame everyone else for their obesity - when the truth lies in the fact that if they just put the chips away, and moved around a bit they'd probably see those pounds shed - there are people out there that have done, and are doing everything you're supposed to do and still carry extra pounds around. And you'll never know by looking at them who they are.

I'll shut up now.

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

In reality I couldn't care less what people choose to do to themselves as long as it does not affect me, I do object when my freedom of choice is removed as a result of what someone else chooses to do and I'm poisoned as a result. I lost Grandparents and my stepdad who all died extremely painful and un-necessary deaths as a result of smoking so I guess I'm biased.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

quote:
Originally posted by: Aodan
"As I guess I'm the only porky person on this board..."

Heh. Now if you'd said that around Christmas, it just wouldn't have been true.

quote:
Originally posted by: Aodan
"...they just can't put the hohos down..."

Yeah. That would have been me then.

quote:
Originally posted by: Aodan
" They will even make assumptions about my intelligence - even WITHOUT seeing my horrific spelling. "

Hmm. Looks ok to me.

quote:
Originally posted by: Aodan
"And you'll never know by looking at them who they are."

But you can ususally tell after about 2 minutes of listening to 'em! Or watching them get through 3 or 4 cans of coke, 3 bags of crisps and a couple of choccy bars aday (not even counting lunch) in the office.

Blimey, Jackie. That was a long post! I should never have started this!!