They've gone too far this time

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

They've gone too far this time

Truckman · Old. But wise!

Yep, keep us posted...Ben

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

<Deep breath>
But if by giving them this operation on the NHS it *miraculously* makes them start taking care of themselves surely it would save you taxes in the future (because you're not paying for their future ill-health). Wouldn't that be worth it?

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

If they are currently too lazy to have anything but poptarts for breakfast and doughnuts for lunch, surely once we've solved this problem for them, they'll just bring me (the tax payer footing the bill for this) another one?

"Oh, Dr I'm really sorry I drank a bottle of vodka every day for 20 years - I'm just lazy and drinking too much I guess"

"No problem monosyllabic patient of mine - I'll arrange a liver transplant without delay - you qualify immediately because your liver failure is totally self inflicted!"

"Hoorah for me - I'll get you a glass..."

or

"Oh, Dr I was just too lazy to bother to put the seat belt on can you PLEASE get those bits of glass out of my eyes!"

"Why, of course I can - you have no personal responsibility to look after yourself after all. That's the state's job - to bail you out of trouble because you're too stupid to deserve to live"

and so on...

Truckman · Old. But wise!

I'm beginning to like this Stead guy... idea

...Ben

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Although I do entirely see your point one way or another they're going to be getting money from our taxes, so why not send them to some kind of bootcamp for 6 months & actually educate them in how to be healthy? You could probably even film it & sell it to Channel 4 to reduce the tax burden!
On a related tangent; I do get very annoyed by being constantly bombared with the implication that all there is to good health is having a good BMI. It's quite scary when you read the ingredients of a lot of these "healthy" products & the amount of rubbish that goes in them. I am admittedly getting a little fanatical about this, but with good reason; I'm asthmatic, I was on the maximum dose of steroid inhaler I'm allowed without returning to the docs & on the point of going back to beg for more as I was struggling with it. I cut out artificial additives & felt significantly better within a fortnight & was off the steroids completely within a month. It's quite disturbing when you read up on all the possible problems caused, or made worse by the stuff that's quite legal to stick in our food, not just physical illnesses but also mental health problems. Ban the lot of them & you'd probably reduce the crime as well as the strain on the NHS.
off soap box>

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

sha76jam wrote:

Although I do entirely see your point one way or another they're going to be getting money from our taxes, so why not send them to some kind of bootcamp for 6 months & actually educate them in how to be healthy? You could probably even film it & sell it to Channel 4 to reduce the tax burden!
On a related tangent; I do get very annoyed by being constantly bombared with the implication that all there is to good health is having a good BMI. It's quite scary when you read the ingredients of a lot of these "healthy" products & the amount of rubbish that goes in them. I am admittedly getting a little fanatical about this, but with good reason; I'm asthmatic, I was on the maximum dose of steroid inhaler I'm allowed without returning to the docs & on the point of going back to beg for more as I was struggling with it. I cut out artificial additives & felt significantly better within a fortnight & was off the steroids completely within a month. It's quite disturbing when you read up on all the possible problems caused, or made worse by the stuff that's quite legal to stick in our food, not just physical illnesses but also mental health problems. Ban the lot of them & you'd probably reduce the crime as well as the strain on the NHS.
off soap box>

Have you been reading this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fat-Gollancz-S-F-Rob-Grant/dp/0575078200/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215164986&sr=8-1

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

No. Can't amazon from work, shall check it out later.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

sha76jam wrote:

Although I do entirely see your point one way or another they're going to be getting money from our taxes, so why not send them to some kind of bootcamp for 6 months & actually educate them in how to be healthy? You could probably even film it & sell it to Channel 4 to reduce the tax burden!

It's quite scary when you read the ingredients of a lot of these "healthy" products & the amount of rubbish that goes in them.

I agree totally with the boot camp idea - control their food and their exercise and prove that their weight is down to choice - if they still want the surgery, fine if they can pay for it -

As for 'healthy products' being dangerous - sure some of them are - but there is nothing dangerous about a lettuce! lol

Henglegert Rinkerdink · Sorry... I must have the wrong street.

Um, isn't all they've said is that the operation will be allowed on the NHS, not "will be offered"

As far as I can tell, outside of the celebrity circle (where it'd all be private anyway) that kind of surgery is last resort and at the descretion of the surgeon in charge. I doubt it's gonna be "oh, your fat ... here have a band fitted".

At my height, BMI of 50 would be 25 stone 9 lb ... I don't know many people that heavy purely through cake induction.

Just thinking there may be two sides to this story, you know outside the Jeremy Vine Show and the Daily Mail where most Stead Facts seem to come from.

;)

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

JonnyStead wrote:

As for 'healthy products' being dangerous - sure some of them are - but there is nothing dangerous about a lettuce! lol

Lettuce is fab - I've been growing my own & it's so much more yummy for being properly fresh.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Henglegert Rinkerdink wrote:

Um, isn't all they've said is that the operation will be allowed on the NHS, not "will be offered"

As far as I can tell, outside of the celebrity circle (where it'd all be private anyway) that kind of surgery is last resort and at the descretion of the surgeon in charge. I doubt it's gonna be "oh, your fat ... here have a band fitted".

At my height, BMI of 50 would be 25 stone 9 lb ... I don't know many people that heavy purely through cake induction.

Just thinking there may be two sides to this story, you know outside the Jeremy Vine Show and the Daily Mail where most Stead Facts seem to come from.

;)

If you'd watched the report - you'd have seen the person they sighted as someone who had been told they now immediately qualify for the surgery (and had it offered to them) because their BMI was >50. This was despite the fact they admitted their weight issues were caused by "Laziness and eating too much" -

Sure there are medical reasons for a small % of obesity for instance small tumours on the pertuitary gland releasing too many hormones into the system etc - but for the vast majority of fat people its down to poor diet and sedentary lifestyle -

With regards to your attempt to belittle me by assuming my sources are unworthy (the Daily Mail? please...) consider these FACTS - I've sighted the sources below.

1 22,000,000 of the worlds children under 5 are now clinically obese¹

2 In the developed world, we live in the first generation of the human race where we could expect parents to outlive their children²

3 300,000,000 people around the world are now obese¹

4 In some countries more than 30% of children are obese¹

5 Research published in July 06 within Annals of Internal Medicine shows that female teenagers classified as overweight according to their body mass index (BMI) at 18-years-old, are significantly more likely to die before they reach middle age.

6 In the UK and USA a staggering 60% of adults are obese or overweight

7 In the UK 1 in every 5 adults is clinically obese

8 The worldwide level of obesity has tripled in the last 20 years

9 Obesity now kills as many people as smoking and it will soon overtake it

10 Being obese is likely to take 9 years off your life expectancy⁴

11 In 2000 the very first children in the UK were diagnosed with type 2 diabetes they were all obese girls aged 9-16³

12 In 2006, it was revealed that 1 in 5 adults in China are now obese and that the Chinese still consider it to be a sign of affluence.

¹World Health Organisation²U.S. Surgeon General Richard Carmona, March 2004³ Royal College of Nursing of the United Kingdom⁴National Audit Office United Kingdom⁵from the Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH)

The Royal College for Nursing writes The tendency towards obesity is fostered by lack of physical activity and high calorie, often low-cost foods.

So all in all I dont think I'm asking too much for people to look after themselves rather than running their bodies into the ground and then running to me, the taxpayer, to pay for the fix - again.

-- Edited by JonnyStead at 13:30, 2008-07-04

Henglegert Rinkerdink · Sorry... I must have the wrong street.

Was no information where the report was from so I couldn't see it, where was it. And I wasn't belittling I was being sarcastic.

As to point 6 on your list ... I'm in there. BMI of 26. Doesn't necessarily make me a lazy lardarse ... I am, but it doesn't necessarily make me so.

Clincally obese for me would be 15 stone 7. And this is why I have BMI. If you are just shy of 6 foot and weigh 15 st 7 you're obese. That'll be 90% of boxers then, no? The scale means cock all outside of a government guideline.

I see no problem offering a life saving operation to someone on the NHS. I really don't. And I suspect the person in the report was offered it after several other options ... I would honestly suspect that most people would rather try to change their habits than have a massive, dangerous operation. And a lot would have to make some headway on their own to be allowed on the operating table in the first place, a lot have a maximum weight limit of 23 stone iirc. No self respecting surgeon would offer it as first choice.

Again I don't know your source and the Daily Mail comment was glib, but the majority of the modern media, unfortunately now including the BBC, are painfully sensationalist to the point where I take everything with a pound of salt ... which is probably putting me at increased risk of heart failure by 35.

Hey ho.

Anyone got any chips?

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Woohoo! Just checked my BMI & am now officially no longer overweight! Though if I'm being totally honest that does make me think the "healthy" range is a bit on the generous side (& I'm fairly muscley), which does just make the stats all the more disturbing.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I know you were being glib - none taken! biggrin

I accept that those who build muscle will have high BMI's and that BMI is only a guide - but it is right 90% of the time for the average man on the street.

You have to accept, whether its surgery, or hormone therapy or diet pills or any of the other 'treatments' that these, are in the main, fighting a symptom not a cause.

People arent getting fatter because of disease or environmental factors or something genetic - they are getting fatter because they are getting lazy. Convenience food is (though not as bad as it was) loaded with fat and sugar to mask the taste of poor ingredients - and at the same time people are eating more and more of it because they claim to be busier than ever.

Couple this with people taking less exercise - kids are driven to school - we drive to one big shop instead of walking up and down the street or just have the shopping delivered - to name only a few changes, and you end up with fat people.

And there ARE far more fat people in the UK and US than ever before - and its going up! - and its going to cost us a fortune. All this surgery does is limit their food intake to that of a normal person. Give me 8 weeks with any fatty you know, give me 100% control over their activity and diet, and I'll give you back someone who's lost a truck load of weight.

I wrote a book on this in 2006 - it didnt get published because I'm a nobody so the publishers didnt want it! - but the Diabetes Association in the UK supported the content of it.

If anyone would like an electronic copy (its where I copied my facts above from) I'll email it to you - I mention this because it took me 18 months to write and I did a sh1t load of research into this - even talking to the pro-fat groups and I found absolutely no evidence to suggest that the obesity epidemic is down to anything other than choice - so if they can choose to be fat, they can choose to be healthy and I dont have to pay for it!

Rant over now! lol

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

I missed this. What's the fuss? It's not another Winehouse rant is it?

-- Edited by ddvmor at 21:49, 2008-07-04

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

This theory amused me:

After an exhaustive review of the research literature, here's the final word on nutrition and health:

1. Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.
2. Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.
3. Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.
4.. Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.
5. Germans drink beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.
6. The French eat foie-gras, full fat cheese and drink red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than us

CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Makes sense to me. I'm off for a bacon butty with extra lard!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Just make sure you talk only in French for the afternoon then!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

I take it no one else spotted this then: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=208312&in_page_id=34 I wish David Cameron would stop making statements I agree with, it's all wrong, he's a Tory!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

I know. Scary, isn't it!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

It is! After growing up under Thatcher I just see the Tories as the the evil "them". Mind you, I'm not sure that they aren't more Labour then Labour these days.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I grew up under thatcher too - (she was the first PM I remember coming to power) she was certainly bonkers toward the end - but you should have seen the state of the UK in 1979...

Labour are all about tax and spend (though they claim not to be now) which is why there's nothing left in the coffers to help with the current difficulties and why Labour try desperately to hold on to their crazy tax plans...

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Truckman wrote:
Yep, keep us posted...Ben

So, today I have had a formal response via letter from my MP. I was pleased to see a letter rather than an email -

The letter contained the expected reply (paraphrasing here) - "Obesity is a complex issue, we understand tax payers concerns, this surgery is reserved only for extreme cases - Obese people have other ailments so in the long term this saves money"

and the funniest one

"Its a misconception that obesity is caused by laziness - for people such as these the cause is mostly to do with other medical or psychological issues such as... wait for it... an under-active thyroid"

So, in effect what the government thinks (and my MP is actually an MD too!) that evolution is allowing us to become slowly more unwell - that the number of people with debilitating medical or psychological problems is growing year on year through no fault of their own and we should treat this medically.

A quick reminder about what the woman, who is getting the surgery, said about how she got so fat "down to Laziness and eating too much" that doesnt feel like a medical condition to me - actually that kinda feels like she was... oh, I dont know... LAZY AND EATING TOO MUCH

Nice to see the government has checked this stuff out properly before chucking my money away on people who are too dumb or too lazy to look after themselves...

Oh well - at least I registered my view!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Out of interest, which party is your MP? Based on the area, I'd guess, Labour, but I'm not sure how they divvy your bit of Bristol up...

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

indeed - sad to say he is Labour - he is also a simpleton...

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Well at least you got a response from your Parliamentary representative, dude.

Democracy at work!

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Indeed! I was quite happy about that as well!

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

Until you read it that was!