They make bacon on farms!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

They make bacon on farms!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

BBC wrote
The Linking Environment And Farming organisation found that 22% of 1,073 adults questioned did not know bacon and sausages originate from farms.

I suspect that the originators of the survey have a vested interest in it's results. After all, if everyone knows that bacon comes from pigs, what reason do they have to exist.

That said, when you see the quality of pondlife that wanders round the Hellmouth* of a lunchtime, it's easy to believe these stats...

*for 'Hellmouth', read 'Asda in Bedminster'.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

sha76jam wrote:

It's worrying just how thick our nation has become: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6731659.stm

You're just showing me this stuff to make me mad now arent you?

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Well, only so you know which areas to take your crossbow to first!

It does annoy me immensely, what with being a veggie & all. I have no problem with people choosing to eat animals, I do have a problem with people who are too squeamish to admit to themselves what they are eating (although I have great fun winding them up!), but as for people who don't even know that there's a choice to me made! I despair!

Do you think these are the same people who whinge about farmers just being a bunch of whingers who do nothing?

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

ddvmor wrote:

*for 'Hellmouth', read 'Asda in Bedminster'.

Know it well - glad to hear they are still wearing the cauliflowers and eating newspapers.

Incidentally I was surfing through our 'near miss' safety website at work only to find that Rita (no names have been changed to protect the innocent) the cleaner had accidentally put a dishwasher tablet in her mouth rather than in the dishwasher.

Firstly - how does this qualify as a 'near miss'?
Secondly - how could anyone be sooooo stoopid?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Did she get the sack? She should have got the sack. If they can't sack her for being a moron, then they should sack her for attempting to steal a company dishwasher tablet!

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

I think they stopped paying her about 10 years ago, but she still comes in.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

sha76jam wrote:
I do have a problem with people who are too squeamish to admit to themselves what they are eating

I agree - I though have caught and eaten my own fish, reared and killed my own chickens, stolen their eggs - shot and killed the fox trying to kill said chickens for itself (basserd) - ferreted my own rabbits, assisted in the slaughtering of a pig (and named it Oscar and then ate it) slaughtered my own veggies and gone off into the forrest and cut down enough wood to warm a house for a week and burnt it!

I like vegetarians - its so much easier to rise to the top of the food chain when people are deliberately handicapping themselves like that!

I'm like some kind of God... (or not)

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

JonnyStead wrote:
I like vegetarians - its so much easier to rise to the top of the food chain when people are deliberately handicapping themselves like that!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Pah, I would like to point out that, all things being equal, we are under identical threat of becoming dinner, I am merely near the top (if you wish to argue the point with a lion, please, feel free) of a far shorter chain than you. (What a good job that you don't believe man effects the climate, it means you don't need to worry that my diet has a smaller carbon footprint than yours)

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Yeah I'll argue the point with a lion if you like - how many lions do you know holding people in captivity and have human-skin rugs in front of their fires - I'll be on the human in a fight with a lion any day of the week.

Smaller carbon footprint? I cant wait to hear the explanation for that one!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

No! Bad Sharon and Stead. Naughty. No carbon footprints in this thread. We already have a thread for Stead to be rude to people in, don't spread your filth here as well! Tut!

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Sorry...

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

I'm not! I started the thread & I shall argue in it if I like!
It's basic science, the longer the food chain the more energy is lost. Therefore I have to eat less veggies to obtain my calories than the cow did for you to be able to eat it to get yours (I am talking pound for pound here, not assuming that you eat a whole cow in one sitting). Less production > lower carbon emissions. Also, vegetables don't fart, unlike cows, who are renowned for it

Lion skin rugs & lions in zoos have absolutely nothing to do with the food chain. As far as I'm aware there are no lion farms & one cannot order a lion steak?

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jun 10, 2007

I think she gotchya Stead

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

damin right - I'm with the girls here (as always)

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

sha76jam wrote:

I'm not! I started the thread & I shall argue in it if I like!
It's basic science, the longer the food chain the more energy is lost. Therefore I have to eat less veggies to obtain my calories than the cow did for you to be able to eat it to get yours (I am talking pound for pound here, not assuming that you eat a whole cow in one sitting). Less production > lower carbon emissions. Also, vegetables don't fart, unlike cows, who are renowned for it

Lion skin rugs & lions in zoos have absolutely nothing to do with the food chain. As far as I'm aware there are no lion farms & one cannot order a lion steak?

I really didnt want to get drawn into a debate here - and its worth caveating that my response isnt personal - I like you Shazza after all!

The point I was making was simply that Humans have killed way more lions over the years than the other way round in response to your point that I should argue it over with a lion. Its brain over brawn at the end of the day.

The food chain point I was making was simply that people who eat meat perform better than people who dont. With that in mind I view that people who 'perform better' are rated higher sort of... I'm not gonna get into a big debate about the science of it - but I've seen studies with Colin Jackson and other athletes who's physical and mental performance diminished when they switched to a veggie diet.

As for methane production - well - I've shared a house with a vegetarian in the past and I would say the cows have some pretty stiff competition!

Anywho - each to their own!

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jun 11, 2007

Did you just say vegetarians don't perform as well as meat-eaters? oh my dear..

-- runs away. Battens down the hatches --

-- Edited by bonniepirateanne at 13:57, 2007-06-11

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

He did, which was a silly, dangerous thing to do, but then he qualified his statement like this:

JonnyStead wrote:
but I've seen studies with Colin Jackson and other athletes who's physical and mental performance diminished when they switched to a veggie diet.

Which actually kinda makes sense. I've seen the results of a couple of similar studies on athletes (and I think there was something on the telly not so long ago). That said, I'm pretty sure that the conclusions were that an athlete who normally eats meat has a poorer performance when he/she stops eating meat. I don't recall seeing any direct comparison between meat eating athletes and long term vegertarian athletes.

Are there any successful veggie athletes? I don't know.

Then he said this:

JonnyStead wrote:
I've shared a house with a vegetarian in the past and I would say the cows have some pretty stiff competition!

Which was about farts and I laughed.

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Oh, nothing personal, just a good argument!

There may be something in top athletes' performance reducing when switching to a veggie diet, possibly. Without seeing details of the diet, the length of the study, etc I can't comment on that. I'd like to see details of any study finding it applied to the average man in the street though. I do get pissed off when people claim that veggies are sickly/have stunted growth/are less intelligent/can't develop muscle/are weaker though! (Does your "performing better" fit into one of these categories? Slightly confused as to what you're meant to be performing better than me on?) Yes, diet does affect all of the above (I notice a huge difference myself when I don't eat well) but you can eat a perfectly balanced veggie diet. (Oh, & as I'm 3" above average height, of above average intelligence, have to do little more than think about exercise to put on muscle, tend to be the one who shifts anything heavy round at work & am generally in good health I feel in a reasonably good position to argue those points)

Humans have killed many things over the years, killing doesn't make something part of the food chain. Lions are top carnivores, which put them above us omnivorous humans in the food chain.

I know some pretty gaseous meat-eaters, the point is not whether meat-eaters, veggies or cows produce the most methane. The point is that meat-eaters + cows produce more methane than veggies.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

sha76jam wrote:

Oh, nothing personal, just a good argument!

There may be something in top athletes' performance reducing when switching to a veggie diet, possibly. Without seeing details of the diet, the length of the study, etc I can't comment on that. I'd like to see details of any study finding it applied to the average man in the street though. I do get pissed off when people claim that veggies are sickly/have stunted growth/are less intelligent/can't develop muscle/are weaker though! (Does your "performing better" fit into one of these categories? Slightly confused as to what you're meant to be performing better than me on?) Yes, diet does affect all of the above (I notice a huge difference myself when I don't eat well) but you can eat a perfectly balanced veggie diet. (Oh, & as I'm 3" above average height, of above average intelligence, have to do little more than think about exercise to put on muscle, tend to be the one who shifts anything heavy round at work & am generally in good health I feel in a reasonably good position to argue those points)

Humans have killed many things over the years, killing doesn't make something part of the food chain. Lions are top carnivores, which put them above us omnivorous humans in the food chain.

I know some pretty gaseous meat-eaters, the point is not whether meat-eaters, veggies or cows produce the most methane. The point is that meat-eaters + cows produce more methane than veggies.

Hey ho - Shazza if you accept that it affects athletes it affects the man in the street doesnt it? They are different breeds are they? You may be fit and healthy - doesnt mean you wouldnt be better off with meat - go on have a sausage sandwich

I dont want to be petty about the whole foodchain thing - but top predator is top of the food chain - and we're top predator - so we're top of all the foodchains - I've seen it in books and everything!

As for meat-eaters + cows etc. How about Veggies + Compost heaps? hmm hmm?

smile

-- Edited by JonnyStead at 14:16, 2007-06-11

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

sha76jam wrote:
I know some pretty gaseous meat-eaters, the point is not whether meat-eaters, veggies or cows produce the most methane. The point is that meat-eaters + cows produce more methane than veggies.

He he. Now Shaz is talking about farts.

I like this thread!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Darren - it was me who started the topic of farts, do keep up!

Erm, yes Stead, athletes are different! Not because they're a different species but because of what they're asking their body to do. They have different nutritional requirements, just as men's requirements are different to women's & children, the elderly & pregnant women have different nutritional needs. Not that I said I accepted they needed meat anyway, I said there's a possibility there may be something in it but I could hardly comment without reading the study.

I can pretty much guarantee I would throw up a sausage sandwich, so no, wouldn't do me any good at all.

We're obviously not going to reach agreement on where we come in the food chain, particularly if you won't accept that something can only be included in a food chain if it's food!

Although I do intend to get a compost bin, there will be very little food/veg trimmings going in, they tend to go in the dog! (Who does fart, but far less than a cow!)

HaloBurn · **Dad** Yarrr...

I thought you couldn't count farting when talking about climate because it's part of natural Co2 emissions and not (mostly) man made - part from the veggies who produce more methan that is.

i think I'll shut up now

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Oh no, do keep posting, it means more Johnny Depp to look at!

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I'm going to chunder....

Personally I believe that people settling for less than excellent nutritional standards (like what an athlete has) is one of the reasons why people in the developed world are in such a sorry state and why we have to mark up boxes that could way up to 15kgs as dangerously heavy when full!

15kgs... pfff people are settling too easily over what our bodies can and cant do (presuming they have meat in them obviously)

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Amazing, we start & end the thread (almost) in agreement! (The middle bit was fun though!)

Only I do feel obliged to point out that despite not eating meat & despite never having lifted a weight in my life, I do not see how 15kg can be described as heavy, let alone dangerously so!

-- Edited by sha76jam at 23:22, 2007-06-11

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jun 12, 2007

I hate sausages

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

sha76jam wrote:
Darren - it was me who started the topic of farts, do keep up!

...they tend to go in the dog! (Who does fart, but far less than a cow!)

HaloBurn wrote:
I thought you couldn't count farting when talking about climate

he he. Now everyone's doing it!

JonnyStead wrote:
pfff

That sounded like a fart.

JonnyStead wrote:
I'm going to chunder....

Now there's puke. This thread gets better and better

sha76jam wrote:
Oh no, do keep posting, it means more Johnny Depp to look at!

Do you think Johnny Depp farts?