S'ok I'm Canadian

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

S'ok I'm Canadian

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

So, it seems their attributing Canadians longer life-spans to lower obesity rates...

Curious, because Canadians eat really greasy foods, perhaps more so than their American counterparts, and they generally drink more...

Here's the problem right here: Confectionary (i.e., chocolate):

http://www.hersheys.com/discover/sf_history.asp

In 1983 after years of research, the formula for chocolate manufactured in Canada was changed to a creamier, smoother, lighter coloured and milder flavoured product more suitable to Canadian taste.

Er, that's one way of putting it... Put more simply, Canadians cannot eat American confectionary, comfortably; it is way too sweet, far too much sugar. Noticed it as soon as I moved here, and haven't eaten much chocolate since I moved here...

And note, I'm on the low-end, within my targeted weight, for my height and frame, which is were you want to be for maximum health...

So, next time you give a Canadian smoker a dirty look, while you're slamming down a double-cheeseburger or a box of chocolates, keep in mind, what you're doing is actually less healthy. And you're contributing to the statistics, that is that they're more likely to outlive you.

"Until we dream of life and life becomes a dream - Always!!"

-- Edited by NateO at 19:09, 2006-04-14

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Of course the figures for the UK are skewed because of the Chav Hunting season...

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Moose hunting and ice hockey probably cut Canadians life-spans a little shorter than might be, otherwise...

Read an intersting view-point on why women tend to outlive their male counterparts:

http://www.webfoot.com/advice/women.in.eng.html

Furthermore, I've seen some things that lead me to believe that part of why women live on the average eight years longer then men is their superior temperature regulation system. I don't know if this is true or not, but believing it gives me great comfort. On bad days I can sit there and think evil thoughts about the men in charge of the thermostats: "I may be freezing, but you're going to die!"

Quite right, but because I'm Canadian, not quite as soon as one might think!!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

NateO wrote:

"I may be freezing, but you're going to die!" Quite right, but because I'm Canadian, not quite as soon as one might think!!

And of course she forgets just how damn cool you are, Nate mate.

bonniepirateanne · Date: Apr 15, 2006

i still think smoking is a dirty habit

two wrongs don't make a right

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

It probably is... As are many, many habits... In fact, these other, unmentioned, habits make your life expectancy shorter than that of a smoking Canadian...

Proof's in the pudding, mate.

-- Edited by NateO at 00:08, 2006-04-16

bonniepirateanne · Date: Apr 15, 2006

like i say.. just because other dirty habits exist.. doesnt make OTHER dirty habits non-dirty

i'm not concerned with anyone's life expectancy

your scientific claims confuse me greatly

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Pretty simple in my mind...

The conclusion is that smoking's pretty dirty beacuse the premise is that smoking kills you.

However, it seems the premise is false, because Canadians, who smoke more than Yanks, outlive them. And that's a fact, not anecdotal conjecture.

If the premise is false, the conclusion can't be true. Unless you're working with a different premise, of some sort.

bonniepirateanne · Date: Apr 16, 2006

i'm just working on the premise that some people who smoke get lung cancer and other sorts of diseases and die

and of course others dont

and also i really don't mind that you smoke - i just think your science is dodgy

An estimated 21 million people in the developed world alone died during the last decade as a result of smoking. A quarter of young people who smoke more than 20 cigarettes a day will die prematurely in middle age. In the UK an estimated 121,000 deaths a year can be attributed to smoking, and every hour 13 people die from illnesses related to smoking such as lung cancer, bronchitis, emphysema and heart disease. Six times as many people die from smoking-related illnesses than from AIDS, suicide, drug use, murder and road accidents all put together. Smokers lose on average one day of life a week.

link

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

This is where I always loose non-smokers, they just can't follow what is really simple logic, here it is:

We all have bad habits, one way or another. Whether you eat red-meat, shellfish, chocolate, drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, etc... They all serve to shorten your life.

Now, what I am saying is that being overweight will kill you off faster than smoking tobacco will:

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2004pres/20040309.html

The numbers prove it out. Canadians are less likely to be overweight than an American, but they're more likely to smoke, the result? They live longer.

Is smoking a bad habit? Sure, but you can't isolate it the way non-smokers do. An associate of mine always lets me know that smoking will kill me. What I have to tell him is because he's 30 pounds overweight, statistics show that I am very likely to outlive him, whether I smoke or not.

No one lives on a diet of water and rice cakes... Is smoking a bad habit? Yes, but it seems it might not be as bad of a habit that non-smokers indulge in, on a daily basis.

Proof's in the pudding, mate.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Here's the stats for the U.S.

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/fs040309.htm

And note where your Science turns dodgy... If someone dies from smoking at 80, they outlived their life-expectancy, yet they're baked into your numbers, which skews the whole thing.

The key is to look at life expectancy, if you drop dead at 40 from a heart attack because you're fat, versus dieing at 78 from smoking, well you telll me which is 'unhealthier'. Not the same animal, at all...

Aids kills people five years into contraction. Smoking rarely kills people off so fast. Skin cancer from hitting the tanning boothe will kill you off quickly, if you get the heavier-duty version of it... Generally, not so with smokers.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I see you logic Nate - doing many unhealthy things to excess, drinking, eating red meat/chocolate etc is going to shorten your life and indeed may shorten it more so than smoking 20 a day if you happen to be genetically resistent to lung cancer.

However, and here is the killer (pardon the pun) Cigs are the only product that even if you use them in moderation and in accordance with the advice of the manufacturer are absolutely going to shorten your life span. You cant even say that about guns! -

Eating red meat / chocolate or drinking will not hurt you at all in moderation in fact 1 glass of wine a day is good for you - red meat occasionally is too and small amounts of chocolate will not hurt you at all.

The damage caused to your respiratory system from smoking is immediate - the small fibres in your lungs break down with the first inhalation and the damage mounts from there - it will kill you and will kill you pretty quick.

As for the dirty bit- yellow teeth, fingers and bad smell is what does if for me

I gave up 2 years ago - I feel 10 years younger and I can tell you now they are seriously bad for you. You can make stats say anything you like.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

JonnyStead wrote:

You can make stats say anything you like.

True! Especially stats that agree with you! Okay, I was just being argumentative...

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

This is probably worth a read too:

http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/stats.htm

And if I do the math, here:

http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/greek.htm

Does that mean in Greece, every single person averages 8 cigs/day?

Holy smokes!!

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Think I find numbers like this to be curious, as well:

http://www.kidon.com/smoke/percentages.htm

http://www.kidon.com/smoke/percentages2.htm

The anecdote isn't playing out in the statistics, people!!

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

JonnyStead wrote:

You cant even say that about guns!

Guns don't kill people, husband's that come home early kill people!!

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Now this is hillarious, an anti-smoking group praising Japan:

http://www.no-smoking.org/june00/06-06-00-3.html

The WHO said Japan's traditional low fat diet and low lung disease rates have been key factors in its top position, but it appears to be losing ground.

Erm, while it's true that the Japanese enjoy a low-rate of lung cancer, they are the 2nd heaviest smoking nation in the World! 59% Japan's population smokes tobacco.

You want to talk about people taking a stat and making a useless if not 'the opposite of true' statement about a factual statistic... So let's see we're anti-smoking, we love/praise Japan, and they all smoke like a chimney. Er, that is clear as mud...

Man, that is mind-numbingly stupid; these people need to get an education and do a little homework! And perhaps stop wasting bandwidth with horse**** propaganda...

-- Edited by NateO at 00:39, 2006-04-18

bonniepirateanne · Date: Apr 19, 2006

for once, i agree totally with Stead.. altho i didnt give up smoking 2 years ago and 10 years ago i was still a little girl..

anyway - nate.. you're going to have to summarise/summarize those links for me into one or two handy dandy paragraphy.. there looks to be too much writing on the one i clicked through and now i can't be bothered

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Okay, I'll try to summarize, but seeing is believing (and I'm not as good at this as And is!)....

Smoking is widely believed to be dangerous and cause lung cancer...

I find it hard to argue with this... But, in an attempt to be objective and open-minded, there's a few statistics worthy of raising [my] eye-brows... Here they are:

31% of Canadians smoke as opposed to 28% in the U.S. Historicall the gap has been larger, yet Canadians live two years longer...

59% of Japanese Males smoke, anywhere, indoors, outdoors, you name it (2nd-hand is prevelant). In fact, Japan, is the 2nd highest smoking group in the World, yet they enjoy the longest life expectancy in the World and have extremely low lung-cancer rates relative to the U.S. and Canada.

Greece is the heaviest smoking nation in the World. These guys make the Japanse look like anti-smokers, they average 8 cigarettes per day for everyone in the whole bloody country. Yet they too outlive Brits and Yanks, with roughly the same life expectancy as a Canuck...

Smoking in the U.S. has been cut by 50% in the last 50 years, from 50% of the population smoking to 25% (or 28%, whatever, close enough). Yet Lung Cancer rates are sharply up... Some people attribute this to 2nd hand smoke, but that doesn't make much sense, since less people are smoking... Er, hello? Others point to the fact that the U.S. has some of worst air pollution in the World and this has nothing to do with cigarette smoke, but the way and quantity in which it burns fossil fuels... And if the latter is the case, it reminds me of the old phrase "you might as well smoke 'em if you got 'em"...

How's that? Odd, eh? While I am being argumentative, I don't think I'm trying to slant these numbers, this is how I understand this to work...

Perhaps this is a good time to reiterate: Don't believe everything the government or television tells you!!

-- Edited by NateO at 15:46, 2006-04-19

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

NateO wrote:

Don't believe everything the government or television tells you!!

Should we believe everything that you tell us, Nate mate?

I guess our relatively poor life expectancy is more leted to our crappy diets... The Japanese eat lots of fish, which is good for you. We just eat americanised crap these days. Burgers, chips and other shite! Woohoo!

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

ddvmor wrote:

Should we believe everything that you tell us, Nate mate?

Er, no. Kate-mate asked for a summary, I belive.

Check out the links and run your own math!

-- Edited by NateO at 15:52, 2006-04-19

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Er, Brits have been eating like crap long before the U.S. was ever established!!

You're going to blame the U.S. for the UK's diet?

-- Edited by NateO at 15:53, 2006-04-19

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

No no no. It's not true. We were all classy and talked posh-like before the States came along. Then they discovered crapness and all you can eat buffets and the FBI invented hip-hop and it all went to pot!

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

We so did not eat crap before the US. We ate turnips, and gruel, and blackberries. Who could ask for a better diet?

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Just for the record: I agree with Stead here too!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Cor. there's a positive deluge of Stead agreement on the board recently:

sha76jam wrote:

Completely agree with you there Stead.

sha76jam wrote:

Just for the record: I agree with Stead here too!

bonniepirateanne wrote:

for once, i agree totally with Stead.

Must be nice to be that popular...

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

JonnyStead wrote:

The damage caused to your respiratory system from smoking is immediate - the small fibres in your lungs break down with the first inhalation and the damage mounts from there - it will kill you and will kill you pretty quick.

Erm, we're all going to agree with Dr. Stead, here, in spite of my rigourous statistical analysis that flies directly in the face of this hypothesis, then?

Okay, let me ask this, then, with all due respect. How much time have you spent actually testing this small fibre theory? And how did you test this?

Beware the mounting small fibre damage!!!.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

sha76jam wrote:

Just for the record: I agree with Stead here too!

So noted... Why is hard to say... And, statistically speaking, doesn't look like the correct answer... But, what the hell? It's just life expectancy and actual people we're talking about, here...

sha76jam · Cpt Acorn Short of An Oaktree

Aarghh, I refuse to be drawn, I work in a cancer registry, I could throw stats at you all day, but frankly it'd bore me, I'd still have my viewpoint & you'd still have yours. I do however (as stated elsewhere) fully support you stance on American chocolate!
So what happened to the giving up the cigarettes thing?