Yeah that has been a big story for the last week or so. Basically it boils down to this

Facts:
1. He killed 4 people and founded one of the most notorious street gangs in US History
2. He has never admitted guilt for the murders
3. Since being in jail he has denounced gang violence and written a bunch of childrens books and regular books attempting to steer people away from gangs

Controversy:
Should we commute sentences of people based on good acts?
Can/Should someone be able to make up for bad acts through good acts?

The American Justice System says that if you are convicted to death or life without parole, you have no chance to do anything to help yourself (outside of attempting to get a new trial).

Should people be offerred redemption?

I believe yes, but who is to decide when someone has made up for their bad actions? It gets into a whole moral delima.

I am not a bid fan of the death penalty. I would much rather see a truely henious person rot in jail without parole. The only problem with that is its expensive to jail people. Ultimately we need to reduce costs and gain more revenue streams to support the prison system. Damn, people just need to stop committing crimes!

BrianS wrote:

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Damn, people just need to stop committing crimes!

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True, Jim Carrey sums it up nicely, right here:

http://www.members.tripod.com/SoundBytes1/liarliar/LL.html

http://www.members.tripod.com/SoundBytes1/liarliar/LLlaw.wav

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Secretary: He needs your legal advice.

Fletcher: STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!

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Well, perhaps we screwed this up. But even if we didn't, it's more fun to slag the U.S., anyway, so let's just do that...

Putting aside my feelings on the death penalty, lets just say it's still up in the air on whether or not he truly redeemed himself in jail.

 

In denying clemency to Williams, Schwarzenegger said that the evidence of his guilt was "strong and compelling," and he dismissed suggestions that the trial was unfair.

Schwarzenegger also pointed out the brutality of the crimes, noting that Williams allegedly said about one of the killings, "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." According to the governor's account, Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes.

In addition, the governor noted that Williams dedicated his 1998 book "Life in Prison" to a list of figures that included the black militant George Jackson — "a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed and that he still sees violence and lawlessness as a legitimate means to address societal problems."

Schwarzenegger also noted that there is "little mention or atonement in his writings and his plea for clemency of the countless murders committed by the Crips following the lifestyle Williams once espoused. The senseless killing that has ruined many families, particularly in African-American communities, in the name of the Crips and gang warfare is a tragedy of our modern culture."

Williams and a friend founded the Crips in Los Angeles in 1971. Authorities say it is responsible for hundreds of deaths, many of them in battles with the rival Bloods for turf and control of the drug trade.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_us/williams_execution_57

They were never suggesting that they release him. Just not kill him.

I'm sorry, I don't care if he was just faking it or not. The guy did some good works. Even if he never outright said he was sorry for what he did. Four Nobel PEACE prize nominations.......

The death penalty is state sanctioned MURDER for the purposes of REVENGE. That's all it is.

And to the argument "What if it was someone that you loved that was killed". I'm no saint. I'd want revenge. But is that right? No.

Surely the death penalty can only be justified if you have the full eye for an eye system, including for lesser crimes?  It does have to be said that countries which, for example, cut you hand off for stealing do have negligible (however it's spelt) crime rates!

Over the last few years we've had quite a few high profile miscarriages of justice.  Now, it's bad enough for the innocent people who've been locked up for 20 years, but one of the ones that was overturned was, if I remember correctly, the last UK death sentence.  Now OK, he'd probably have died from natural causes by now, but not really my point!  I'm with Jackie on this one - how can you justify a death penalty if you don't have an infallible legal system?

Well, I'm officially sick, but tonnes of stuff that can't wait, so yeah, kind of working, lot of emails flying around.

Be a whole lot more convenient if I had the energy to crawl out from under my duvet for longer than 5 minutes!

I can assure you that your world is not under my duvet!  Honestly!

The only place?  So you mean you've gone through the knicker drawers of the entire planet?  I am shocked!

Is it very small?

Oh dear, you'd best hope it's just down the back of the sofa then.  My dog would've eaten anything fitting that description.

That was a most impressive threadjack. Bravo hehehe

just to unthread-jack for a moment

my point was.. 'they shouldnt let him off the death penalty' seeing that that's the law..

although i dont agree with the death penalty at all (the whole eye for an eye thing, who are we to judge? humans always make mistakes.. good points) .. (i think they did finally prove that Brown, the last hanged british man did probably do what he was hanged for after all.. can't be bothered to google it just now tho)

and on another note, tony blair and george bush both got nominated for a nobel peace prize too right?

I can't, though. 

The point I was making with the nominations was that someone out there at least thought that he was worthy of a nomination. But the bigger question was "what is redemption?" and then "what is it worth if there is no one to forgive you in the end". By killing Tookie the state sent out a clear message. "It doesn't matter how you might reform, or redeem yourself in prison. We've decided we're gonna kill you no matter what". And what does that teach boys and girls? Be a thug, stay a thug, cuz no one cares about who you might become, only who you were.

Lets put Tookie aside for a minute, and look at this story: Unfortunately I can't find my source, but basically a man was sleeping in his bed, middle of the night, infant daughter int he crib next to him, police bust in thinking that its a back door to the house when really its a duplex and the guy they want is on the other side. Anyway, as soon as they bust in, guns drawn, he reacts and shoots at the intruders, hitting one cop. As soon as it becomes clear that they are police officers, he surrenders himself to them. Unfortunately, the cop died, now the man is on death row because killing a cop - even if it wasn't premeditated - carries the same penalty as murder 1 - which in his state is Death. So the cops mess up, blow into the wrong house, ransack the place, he defends his family in what is an honest mistake, puts down his weapon and surrenders himself the minute the mistake is realized, now he's going to die. Should he go shooting randomly? No, and I myself personally question the idea of having a loaded gun in your home - BUT that is not a crime. Shooting an intruder in most cases would get you a manslaughter conviction - if one at all. But here he is sitting on Death Row.

I'm gonna have to drop outta this thread because I'm just getting heated