Prison Vote

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Prison Vote

sam_carter · Really Bored Member

if they let politicians vote ... they can let everybody vote.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

You shouldn't be able to vote cos you cote UKIP.

sam_carter · Really Bored Member

i work in what is basically a prison, i guess my perspective is different. they are all still human beings, many have had terrible lives which led to their crimes. when you realise the background, it changes your view quite sharply.

wow, i got all worryingly serious there! *excuse me*

BrianS · Still Number One

Here in the US I don't believe prisoners and maybe people out on parole can vote. I believe that is a right that you give up when you break the law plain and simple.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I think we need to be careful about withdrawing peoples rights because they have been convicted of a crime. The custodial sentence is the means with which they pay their debt to society. Would we withdraw their right to Healthcare or protection under the law? I would hope not.

Clearly those imprisoned who are not UK citizens would not have the right to vote but I would be uncomfortable for UK citizens who may have simply made a "mistake" in their lives.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

Indeed.

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

I like what you're saying Stead. Trouble is I don't wholly agree. Convicted criminals have a right to be protected from other criminals and to be kept healthy while they're inside. (Yup, health and lawfulness - agreed).

When it comes to voting though, that means having a say in the way the country is run and I don't believe a convicted criminal has a right to that particular freedom. Once they've paid their debt to society and are released, that's a different matter - give them back thier polling card.

I voted yesterday by the way.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

Raises all sorts of logical problems though.

The rules are made up by a ruling body, elected by the people. If we make distinctions between people in terms of who has broken the rules and who hasnt, and don't let the rulebreakers vote, then the ruling body (and the rules) will never be representative of the people or (more importantly) the values of the people.

Or we could just hang them all and then they can't vote anyway

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

Doesn't incarceration mean locking people away so they can't do the things they could otherwise have done if they still had their freedom?

If everyone knows the rules in advance and some choose to break them, they know the consequences of their actions and should be prepared to live by those consequences.

Hanging? Now there's an intersting thought...

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Suey me old mate -

I understand your point of view, but we dont deprive prisoners of all of societies benefits. We allow visits, day release, education within prisons, healthcare, exercise, entertainment, drugs rehabilitation and of course most importantly Parole.

Do we allow those out on licence to vote or have they only half paid their debt?

Ultimately we live in a society where only 45% turnout to vote - I simply dont believe it is right to restrict the democratic voice of anyone - it sets a dangerous precedent.

Sorry

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

quote:
Originally posted by: BrianS
"Here in the US I don't believe prisoners and maybe people out on parole can vote. I believe that is a right that you give up when you break the law plain and simple."

This needs to be qualified. First, you only risk losing this right if you've been convicted of a felony, e.g., armed robbery. Not misdemeanors, e.g., speeding, which is still a criminal conviction, albeit a petty one.

Second, it varies by state:

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/restorevote/restorevote.htm

E.g., in Minnesota, you can vote, even if convicted of a felony after you are released:

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/restorevote/Minnesota2.htm

-- Edited by NateO at 18:51, 2005-04-27

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

quote:
Originally posted by: JonnyStead
"Suey me old mate - I understand your point of view, but we dont deprive prisoners of all of societies benefits. We allow visits, day release, education within prisons, healthcare, exercise, entertainment, drugs rehabilitation and of course most importantly Parole. Do we allow those out on licence to vote or have they only half paid their debt? Ultimately we live in a society where only 45% turnout to vote - I simply dont believe it is right to restrict the democratic voice of anyone - it sets a dangerous precedent. Sorry "

No need for sorry me ole mucker. We're each entitled to our opinion. Still love ya

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Looks like you & DD agree with the Yanks, Suey-Mate.

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

And thats always a worry...

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

quote:
Originally posted by: NateO
"Looks like you & DD agree with the Yanks, Suey-Mate. "

Not sure if I'm more worried about agreeing with the Yanks or with Darren!

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

Crikey, what a bunch of libertarians we are - only 55% of us think being in prison is a not a good enough reason to disenfranchise someone.

Bear in mind that its the political system which mostly creates law, and the removal of voting rights from the incarcerated population becomes even more doubtful.

Also remember that any of us UK dwellers can be locked up without trial now, and it becomes even more disturbing.

-- Edited by Short Santa at 15:07, 2005-04-28

Copper · **Superhero Extraordinaire**

quote:
Originally posted by: Short Santa
"Bear in mind that its the political system which mostly creates law, and the removal of voting rights from the incarcerated population becomes even more doubtful. "

That is exactly what I said. Surprised to hear that coming from you though, Santa....

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

YAY Santa's a rebel! a wrong rebel but a rebel all the same! -

Due process (as they call it over the pond) does still apply (thank god) the whole "House arrest without trial" thing didnt get to far in the end...

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Heh. Looks like we have a nice mix of right wing facists and woolly liberals here! Admit itthough... you enjoyed discussing it!

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

Ooh, I didn't think I was either.

After watching the question time special I feel totally justified in the choice I made with my little 'X'