view across the pond

kenick · Newbie (be nice to me)

view across the pond

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Hi, Kenick. Nice to see ya! We ain't afraid of a little heated debate on the JDBB. I' ain't gonna ban anyone ...unless they're mean to me ... for talking about the incumbent Saudi Errand boy or his opponent who's only claim to fame is that he got shot. Several times.

Seriously, though - Bush has never convinced me that he's up to the job - he's not particularly elowuent and gives the distinct impression that someone else is pulling the strings, whether it's his dad, the Saudis or just his administration. Problem is, even if he's just a figurehead, he's not a very good one.

Then there's Kerry. Who looks funny. Um. That's about all I know about him. They showed a debate between him and Bush a few weeks ago over here and, whilst he was more capable in the stringing-a-sentence-together stakes and was much surer of his facts and policies than Bush, he seemed a bit... middle of the road.

Still... the BBC is reporting that Bush has as good as won (pending the Ohio votes) so it's all a bit moot, really. I don't think anyone outside the States ever really doubted that he'd get a second term. I could be wrong of course. What do the other Bored Boarders think?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

ooh. I have a plan! Why don't we hold our own election here (with cunning use of a poll) and see who would win if we were voting. Then we can let the White House know of the result. Cool. I'm gonna start the poll - mind if I edit you post to do it, Kenick? Too late, I'm gonna do it anyway!

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

You're very eloquent for a man of your...erm...

kenick · Newbie (be nice to me)

Don't mind the edit at all. It gives me a chance to vote twice!

I have some friends that are traveling to the continent, and they plan on telling everyone over there that they are Canadian. I told them to make sure to throw in a hockey reference and an occasional "Eh". There's a fear among some Americans that we aren't seen in quite the same light that we were in the past. I was listening to BBC radio news on NPR, and it kinda sounded like no one over there could figure out how Bush could win, but by the most recent counts it looks like he did.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

Tell 'em to ask for gravy with their chips eh!

Yep, Bush got her done.

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

You don't believe in hiding your allegiances then?

kenick · Newbie (be nice to me)

I found my own link: http://www.drudgereport.com/

"The Daily Mirror: A large pic of Bush with this caption: “How can 59,054,087 be so dumb!” I asked myself the same question.

Second quote from Drudge: "British Papers Trash Bush"

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Hmmm. You should never make the mistake of assuming that the Daily Mirror reflects the opinion of people in the UK. The people that read the Mirror also tend to live in nasty squalid flats on rough inner city housing estates and do night work in the factory whilst claiming state benfits at the same time and only read the Mirror because they think the Sun is a bit trashy. The Mirror is the sort of newspaper that publishes low-key headlines about middle eastern kidnappers like 'Let's Nail The B*stards' beacuse they like to do a bit of quality unbiased objective reporting. And it smells funny.

... er... sorry - bit of an extreme view there - no-one here reads the Mirror, do they?

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I dont think your view is too extreme mate - If I was to get a megaphone and stand in a town centre yelling some of the headlines that the tabloid press have been allowed to print in the past, I would be arrested for slander, inciting racial hatred, appauling use of the english language and many more.

As for the election - I think it came down to personality and the war. The US has never voted out a president during a time of war and it would be "Non-Flag like" to do it now. So what if the Republicans are going to open up national parks to oil exploration, and ignore pretty much all of the proposed Green accords in existence? Its not like they contribute the most to world pollution.... (see the irony) I think over all though that the US gets a pretty bad wrap. The people are OK - and I was personally pleased to see a record turn out defying the idea that US citizens cant or wont vote.

If you think the US are a bit bananas about foreign policy and immigration.... just wait and see what happens when some berk blows up part of london with a dirty bomb and leaves it uninhabitable for the next 40 years - they'll soon find out why we actually have the best army in the world - by a street.

Oh and I voted.... thanks.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Well it's head to head here at the Jammie Dodger Bored Board. George and John level in the stakes. If something doesn't happen soon, we'll have to get 'em to complete a tie breaker question!

Of course I fully intend to notify the White House of the outcome of the JDBB election. they must have an e-mail address I can send something to!

kenick · Newbie (be nice to me)

I think the thing that bothered me most about the election are some of the polls I saw.

1. 60% of the people who voted for Bush believe that weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.

2. Nearly the same amount believe that Saddam was behind the planning of 9/11.

3. Nearly the same amount believe that it was Iraqi citizens who flew the planes on 9/11.

I don't mind losing an election based on an honest disagreement over issues. It's electorate ignorance that upsets me.

And for any of you who believed those three things listed above, here are two more bubbles I would like to burst, curtosey of Dogbert:

1. Pro wrestling is fake.

2. If people don't comment on your new hair style, they hate it.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Pro-wrestling is fake??? That's just crazy talk! Next you'll be telling me that Big Brother is rigged, KITT couldn't really drive himself and Most Haunted Live wasn't a load of old cobblers.

Seriously, though a lack of understanding among the electorate is just unforgiveable. If you don't understand the issues about which you're voting... don't vote! Of course in my opinion, within a democracy, it's everyones duty to vote, so they should make a point of researching and understanding the issues. It's pretty simple - there's a ton of information out there... people just have to get off their *rses to go and find it!

And didn't anyone see Farenheight 9/11 anyway?

kenick · Newbie (be nice to me)

These are the links to U.K. newspapers on the Drudge Report. Which ones would you consider to be more respectable?

[U.K.] DAILY MIRROR
DAILY RECORD
[U.K.] EVENING STANDARD
[U.K.] EXPRESS
[U.K.] GUARDIAN
[U.K.] INDEPENDENT
[U.K.] NEWS OF THE WORLD
[U.K.] STAR
[U.K.] SUN
[U.K.] TELEGRAPH
[U.K.] TIMES

Also, I noticed that the poll here is hotly contested...tied at three apiece at this time. It may be necessary to call in Jimmy Carter to oversee things. We need to make sure that everyone has full confidence in the final results.

-- Edited by kenick at 16:20, 2004-11-04

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

quote:
Originally posted by: JonnyStead
"So what if the Republicans are going to open up national parks to oil exploration, and ignore pretty much all of the proposed Green accords in existence? Its not like they contribute the most to world pollution.... (see the irony)"

Reality does not support this assertion mate, check it out, the Republicans are paying for the following: http://www.conocophillips.com/news/nr/042704_awards_cali.asp

And check out the policies of the two candidates:

Bush: "Has increased research funding for hydrogen and fuel cell
technologies, clean coal research, and nuclear and fusion power
research. Supports modernizing the national electric grid to avoid
blackouts."

Kerry: "Supports a goal of meeting 20 percent of the demand for motor fuel
with ethanol, biodiesel and hydrogen by 2010. Also wants to overhaul
the national electric grid with new technologies to prevent blackouts.
Wants to invest $10 billion over the next decade to develop cleaner
and more efficient coal-fired power plants."

Erm, John Kerry, there's no such thing as an efficient, clean coal-fired plant! It's called Hydrogen dudes, and the success, due in part to the republican investment in it, will blow away anything the Kyoto Protocal calls for.

One of many reasons why Kerry is not suitable to run this country.

There's no need to hide my allegiences Suey mate, I actually have some reasonable opinions on the subject.

Bush has been pretty successful with what he has had to operate with, I think he's shown tremendous leadership in several areas, including tax reform. The gay marriage ban and illegalization of abortion is crap, but the courts will overturn such nonsense with time.

Bottom line: the U.S. was right to reelect him.

-- Edited by NateO at 22:19, 2004-11-04

Susan · Tickle me, Elmo! I'm Roger Moore's Stunt Double!

Boys, boys. Now if you don't shake hands and play nicely...

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Kenick - I think I'd go with the Times or the Guardian. They can both be a little (ahem) biased at times when it comes to UK politics, but generally their international reporting is pretty up to scratch.

The way I see it, based on what Ive seen on the telly and read in papers or online, the biggest problem with the election was that it was treated as a vote on Iraq rather than on each candidates domestic policies.

I could be wrong... ...nah. it'll never happen!

kenick · Newbie (be nice to me)

ddvmor,

Thanks for the newspaper tips.

I don't post here often, but when I do it's always fun. This isn't quite as heated as the threaded I started about how to prepare tea, but it's still entertaining and enlightening.

I have to disagree, though that it came down to Iraq. If that was the case, Kerry would have won because more than half of the country doesn't like the direction the war is going. Not the economy either because more than half of the people polled said they are feeling more squeezed now than four years ago. The issue that carried Bush was moral values. The folks in the red states felt that Bush represents their values. No gay marriage, no abortion, prayer in schools, etc. Oh...and guns for all. It doesn't matter if you can actually deliver any or all them, if you promise it, they will vote.

NateO · Vice JDK and Man of the People

While I agree Kenick, that people, for some outrageous reason that I don't follow, think Kerry would have been better for the economy, economists don't tend to agree. Did you see the markets jump yesterday?

The economy and tax reform were my priorities, and I'm with Bush on those.

People may feel more squeezed than four years ago, they must be spending more (they're not being taxed more) because the economy is in much better shape by any metric I've seen, and some qualatative stuff I've seen.

But again, he does loose me on the so called 'moral crap'. If two gay people want to work it, what business is that of mine?

-- Edited by NateO at 23:41, 2004-11-04

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Obviously we only get heated about the really important things... like Tea. Now, if Bush and/or Kerry had taken a political stance on tea preparation methods, this would have been a very different thread.

You're probably right, though. It's likely that our press has concentrated on the State's foreign policy... after all gay marriages and abortion rights in the USA hardly affects us in the UK.

Unless we decide to move to the States, come out of the closet, get married and then have an abortion. Which I find unlikely.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

quote:

Originally posted by: NateO
Bush: "Has increased research funding for hydrogen and fuel celltechnologies, clean coal research, and nuclear and fusion powerresearch. Supports modernizing the national electric grid to avoidblackouts."

Kerry: "Supports a goal of meeting 20 percent of the demand for motor fuelwith ethanol, biodiesel and hydrogen by 2010. Also wants to overhaulthe national electric grid with new technologies to prevent blackouts.Wants to invest $10 billion over the next decade to develop cleanerand more efficient coal-fired power plants." .

Bush has been pretty successful with what he has had to operate with, I think he's shown tremendous leadership in several areas, including tax reform. The gay marriage ban and illegalization of abortion is crap, but the courts will overturn such nonsense with time.

Whats nice about the quotes above Nate (me old mate - and this aint personal its just for the cause of a lively debate) is that they dont sound like they have come out of a Republican sound bite.

You know the bit where Bush suppresses the rights of homosexuals to marry and rape victims not to have to bring up the child of their attackers...? thats not nonsense its disgraceful and would be in breach of the European Court of Human rights and rightly so. Its simply not good enough to say that the courts will overturn these things - they shouldnt be forced through in the first place.

If you wonder how good Bush is on green issues... ask the Kyoto guys what they think! oh and by the way you can ask Bush why he has cut HIV research down to virtually nil (requiring Bill Gates to step up and open a lab and fund it) and why he still hasnt allowed import drugs to US citizens after 4 years?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

quote:
Originally posted by: JonnyStead
" ...its disgraceful and would be in breach of the European Court of Human rights and rightly so..."

America being right in the heart of Europe...?

quote:
Originally posted by: JonnyStead
"...Bush suppresses the rights of homosexuals to marry and rape victims ..."

I'm not sure I can dispute this one...

I think that, given the deadlock reflected in our polll there, we should e-mail the White House and John Kerry and ask them to complete a tie-breaker. Then I can post the responses (like they're gonna reply) and we can vote for the best response. The winner of that poll gets the official endorsement of the JDBB.

-- Edited by ddvmor at 08:46, 2004-11-05

Andromeda · ***Proud House-Owner***

I think I broke your tie :)

I'm so vehemently against Bush's re-election that I'm already starting plans to move out of the country. I don't want to be associated with anything he's going to do in the next four years. As it is I'm already against being associated with a state that went to Bush just based on the geographical location of my house.

And I'm not even a democrat.

The Times said Europe "must come to terms, not only with Mr. Bush, but with the nation that has elected him. This is a president who really can speak for America." I can assure you this man does not speak for me or anyone else I know.

But I'm not bitter or anything

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

My poor tie. I'm devastated!

Come and live in Bristol. I'll make you feel really posh!

Andromeda · ***Proud House-Owner***

Yay! I've always wanted to be posh

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

The best bit about living in Bristol is that the political debate rarely gets more intellectual than:

"I fink the price of ciderrr is terrible, me babber" and "Wiv the price of me fags going up all the toime, me dole money just don't go as far as it used ter".

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

REEEEEEEEET? My babs?

I loves My BABS I Does! - I'm off t'ASDAL -

By the way Kind of mine I said it "WOULD" be a breach of the EHRA - I was aware that the US isnt in Europe honest - but what about Russia? hmm hmm?

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Nope. The US isn't in Russia either.

VicM · Baaaaa. No, really - Just Baaaaa.

I think I'll stay out of this one and stick with the chocolate bar debate. Does anyone else find chocolate a hard word to type? I get as far as choc and then I want to launch straight in with late missing out the ever so important o.

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

Do you mean the oh-so-important 'O'?

You are right of course. Chocolate is much more important than politics.