Justice

Truckman · Old. But wise!

Justice

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

I agree with you on this entirely.

The law is insanely complicated in the UK - let me give you an example.

If we were both in a room - you standing by the door and me standing by a wall and I said I was going to attack you - the most that could happen to me is being cautioned for threatening behaviour, but if I were by the door and you by the wall (in other words me blocking your route of escape) and I said exactly the same words, whether I struck you or not I would be done for assault.

The problem with UK law is that it tends to be based on ancient precedents that dont seem to catch up. (The reason why men get so royally rogered in divorce cases in the UK - no matter the circumstances)

I've always made it pretty clear - if someone breaks into my house with me in it... its game on and bollox to the law. As long as you lay your hands on something that 'happens to be around' you can do pretty much what you like - so its fortunate that I happen to have remarkebly lethal things 'around' in almost all rooms! wink

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

"That's right, your honour. I just happend to have a weapon of mass destruction next to the sofa. Why? well, sometimes I use it to whittle little figures out of wood, or passers by. It's just coincidence that it can also be used to commit genocide on a global scale!"

it is a tricky on, and the rules have to allow for farmers who sit on thir stairs with a shotgun waiting for some scrote to break in!

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Yep - thats where the distinction is though - you cant lay in wait or deliberately carry a weapon even in your own home.

But if there happens to be say a pick axe handle next to your bed or a pointy pointy in your lounge then if you happen to grab it during a burglary you can pretty much do what you like.

The only person (apart from said farmer) who ever got successfully prosecuted for killing an intruder in the UK was a guy who killed him, chopped him up, put him in bags, took him down the road, threw him in a ditch and set fire to him - the judge thought the fire was a bit much... no one else has ever been done for it though - apparantley !

Truckman · Old. But wise!

Americans are not without our incongruities in the law...Here in Texas, trained and licensed citizens have the right to carry concealed handguns almost anywhere...However, in our own capital (that bastion of liberal thought, Austin) the district attorney has made it clear that he wishes to prosecute citizens for exercising that right even though he violates state law by doing so...

The right to defense of self, family and property is God-given, IMHO, and I will not give it up lightly...An old saying is called to mind: "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

...Ben

-- Edited by Truckman at 21:51, 2007-07-01

bonniepirateanne · Date: Jul 2, 2007

JonnyStead wrote:

If we were both in a room - you standing by the door and me standing by a wall and I said I was going to attack you - the most that could happen to me is being cautioned for threatening behaviour, but if I were by the door and you by the wall (in other words me blocking your route of escape) and I said exactly the same words, whether I struck you or not I would be done for assault.

Thinking back to my law degree days - and although it has been a while I admit, I'm curious as to where this information comes from?

As far as I can remember, if you believe you are under the threat of injury (no matter where you're standing) the perpetrator can be done for assault. An example would be a case (that I cannot find the name of yet, but I will..) where a man knocked on the window of a nurses apartment - so afraid was she (i.e. she feared this man was going to injure her) that he was successfully arrested and charged with assault...

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Truckman wrote:

An old saying is called to mind: "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

That's genius!

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

Presumably smoking while you were being burgled would also net you a fine now, as it was the burglars 'place of work'?

Slightly more seriously, I have some issues here, I would much rather lie in bed snugly, while a burglar took any posessions of mine that he/she wanted rather than risk a confrontation that endangered me/my wife/my daughter.

That said if someone was intending to do any of us harm as a primary motive I'd fight tooth and nail with whatever was at hand.

Truckman · Old. But wise!

Short Santa wrote:

That said if someone was intending to do any of us harm as a primary motive I'd fight tooth and nail with whatever was at hand.

Therein may lie the rub...Unlike civilized folks who knock on the front door before entering, your uninvited guests may not announce their intentions upon entry...Or worse, may decide that since you didn't raise a fuss when they robbed you of your hard-earned possesions, they might as well relieve their pent-up frustrations on your family while they're at it...

At the risk of sounding callous, I am prepared to dispatch the vermin to Hell if they decide to break in to my home...I am quite sure they would show me the same courtesy, given the chance and they all know the risk when they decide to take up crime as means to their nefarious ends...Ben

Short Santa · **For entertainment purposes only!**

k..., hope you win the fight dude, cos it would be tragic if you scared a burglar into killing you

I hold a UK Firearms certificate, and the last thing I'd want is any intruder to know...

lets hope it never happens for any of us

love you all

Truckman · Old. But wise!

Short Santa wrote:
lets hope it never happens for any of us

Absolutely...I didn't mean to come off as the bringer of death to the evil forces...I've never been in that situation and, God willing, I never will be...I just wanted to point out that I am mentally prepared and capable of returning a fight if presented with one...Ben

-- Edited by Truckman at 21:48, 2007-07-02

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Short Santa wrote:

k..., hope you win the fight dude, cos it would be tragic if you scared a burglar into killing you

The primary reason why I dont go around randomly killing people on a whim (and believe me there are SO many candidates for my swift and divine justice) is because I know the consequences would be hellish for me.

IN the same way, if your average burglar new that breaking into someones' house could result in a fight to the death everytime - I bet they'd think of a more novel way of funding their habit.

I think your right to keep your family safe as a priority but for me having seen the impact of burglars on loved ones - I'd happily crack their heads open and then see how they get on with my lawyers (they'd earn their money that day!)

Hey ho - maybe a time for a change of topic? Who here likes fish? I do but the JDK doesnt - thats odd isnt it?

Truckman · Old. But wise!

JonnyStead wrote:

IN the same way, if your average burglar new that breaking into someones' house could result in a fight to the death everytime - I bet they'd think of a more novel way of funding their habit.

Criminals are naturally lazy, otherwise they wouldn't have chosen that profession...The potential of facing an armed citizen upon illegal entry into one's home might have the effect of the miscreant seeking easier prey...Statistics can be shown to indicate that states which allow concealed carry for licensed citizens have a decrease in armed crime...I realize that statistics can be skewed to support just about any premise, but this seems to follow the lines of logical thinking as well...

At any rate, I'll continue to arm myself against evil possibilities...Another old saying: "Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that didn't"...Ben

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

I would probably just set my cat on any burglars that broke in. Or possible bombard them with pedantry and sarcasm. They'd soon think twice.

JonnyStead · **"I'm Lois!"**

Thats true - your pedantry and sarcasm are WMDs

And another great quote from Ben! nice!

ddvmor · **I am the Jammie King!**

He is coming up with some good lines. Give us another one, Ben!

Truckman · Old. But wise!

ddvmor wrote:

He is coming up with some good lines. Give us another one, Ben!

OK, it's a little longer than the one-liners I usually adhere to, but at least I can include its author:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing, which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than him." -- John Stewart Mill (1806-1873)Gotta go...Can't be late for work...Ben